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Malaika Hollist

Welcome to the Arts Axis Florida Podcast series, When Freedom Rings. In this six part series we speak with our black and brown community on what has transpired in the art world since the Emancipation of Slavery. on June 19th, 1865. We have open conversations on their experiences as people of color and their contributions to art, communitym and education. The series highlights their continued efforts to move the needle forward.

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Malaika Hollist

This is When Freedom Rings. Welcome to episode five of the Arts Axis Florida Video Podcast series, When Freedom Rings. Today we are speaking with Lillie Samuels, the president of the Afro-American Historical and Genealogical Society here in Tampa. We discuss how finding her own family roots started her career and understanding genealogy, the power of DNA and the importance of black families being able to know where their roots come from.

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Malaika Hollist

Here's the episode. Hi, Lillie. Thank you so much for being here with us today.

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Lillie Samuels

Oh, thank you for this opportunity to share my story with you in reference to genealogy.

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Malaika Hollist

No problem. I'm super excited to learn more. So would you mind telling the audience just a little bit about yourself?

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Lillie Samuels

Okay. I've been studying genealogy since 1984 and I have devoted many hours of time and research. I've given presentations, conducted meetings, workshops, and anything that is going to help the African-American community to be able to research and find out about their family history.

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Malaika Hollist

So can you take a little time to explain exactly what, you know, what genealogy is and how it works in tandem with DNA? Okay. Because there's a lot of confusion about that.

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Lillie Samuels

Yes. And it's important to know that genealogy is the study of studying your family lines, your ancestry lines. And as far back as you can and along the way, you will find clues that will help you to search even further. And DNA works with that because it helps to prove what you found are assumed. Might be DNA really tells that.

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Lillie Samuels

Yes, it is.

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Malaika Hollist

Okay. So DNA basically solidifies your findings. Yes. Okay. Okay. Makes sense. So what got you started in it? What got you started in taking the steps to find your own roots with your own family?

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Lillie Samuels

I have a friend by the name of Wayne Hunter who introduced me to genealogy some years ago. It may have been around 1984 or maybe even a little bit before, but I really started being interested in it more when I found my grandmother at nine years old in the 1900s since living with her mother. They were living in a doctor's home and she was listed

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Lillie Samuels

My great grandmother was listed as a cook there. Okay. And just to be able to find my grandmother's name, which I never knew because my, my great grandmother's name, because my grandmother never spoke of any one in her family. So it just wasn't anything that we talked about. So I didn't I wasn't encouraged or even motivated to to research that.

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Lillie Samuels

So when I found my grandmother at nine years old with her mother, then that sparked an energy for me to learn even more about my family roots.

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Malaika Hollist

So you wanted to learn more about your ancestry. So how did you go from learning about your grandmother and then taking it forward? How did that come about?

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Lillie Samuels

Well, I spoke to my mother and my aunts to just verify, say, did you ever know your grandmother's name? And they said that, yes, they had. But it wasn't anything that they wanted to talk about in the family. And then I find out that my grandmother didn't like to speak about her family experiences and things of that kind.

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Lillie Samuels

And I contributed it to there was really nothing to really be proud about. And some of those thoughts were probably painful, knowing that her mother was enslaved and probably had heard and seen things. And at that time, they they just. And I find that there were several families, African-American families like that, that did not want to speak of their past.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. They wanted to just kind of start from where they were.

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Lillie Samuels

You got it

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah.

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Lillie Samuels

You know, have a fresh start. And but that encouraged me more because I felt like we need to know this, right? We need to know our past. And so with with that, I felt like it's nothing that I'm ashamed of. That was our past.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah.

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Lillie Samuels

And we have to embrace it, look at it and go forward and make sure that it doesn't happen anymore.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. Do you want to take a little bit and explain to people how you found your great, great grandmother? I go into it in some detail.

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Lillie Samuels

Yes. So after I found her in in the 1900 census, I started asking questions and and and I said, well, why were. Why was my grandmother and great grandmother living at a doctor's home? Hmm. And the the answer was that she was the cook, as what I had said a little earlier. But that that family doctor Thompson became a continual acquaintance with them and contacting the 1900 census was taken in June.

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Lillie Samuels

Mm hmm. And then that same year in September. That's when the 1900 flood, the Galveston flood, that is documented as the worst flood to date that has happened here in this in this nation. And so I wondered what happened to them after 1900. Obviously, they both survived because I find them later on. And my grandmother, she was not living

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Lillie Samuels

I wouldn't be here right now. So when I find them again is in the 1910s and says and they're in Beaumont, Texas, which is about an hour and a half away. And and and so my grandmother married and they had eight children. One of their daughters was sickly. And I what I understand is that Dr. Thompson was able to perform surgery on their child, my aunt.

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Lillie Samuels

And and then not only that, I find out that when my mother found out that she was going to have me, she contacted Dr. Thompson, and Dr. Thompson found a OBGYN that was going to deliver me. So there has always been a contact with that family. And I remember her. My grandfather had a church in Galveston and in Beaumont, and they used to travel to Galveston quite often.

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Lillie Samuels

This one particular time when I was a little girl in the car, my mother and her sister were driving in and I remember them saying, Let's go drive by Dr. Thompson's house. And I don't I don't think that they were living there or they had moved from, but they wanted to see that house. And I remember the joy inside.

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Lillie Samuels

It was nothing that was something negative. They were happy to go by that house. But like I said, every little clue.

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Malaika Hollist

Gets you a little further.

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Lillie Samuels

Takes you a little bit further. And that's why it takes a while.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah, it's it's a lot of work. Yes. But it's kind of exciting.

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Lillie Samuels

It is exciting because you find out and it helps you to develop a story about your family. Yeah. And try to fill in the gaps.

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Malaika Hollist

And an important story.

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Lillie Samuels

An important story.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. So your findings allowed you to connect with family you didn't expect. Can you tell us a little bit what that experience was like?

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Lillie Samuels

Yes, it it is. And that's hand-in-hand with the DNA. You see, when you take the DNA tests, you your DNA is in a pool and it based on the centimorgan. How strong they are will determine what your that actual relationship what the relationship is.

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Malaika Hollist

What is that word? Center-

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Lillie Samuels

centimorgan

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Malaika Hollist

Okay.

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Lillie Samuels

It's like it's the how strong it is the DNA.

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Malaika Hollist

Okay.

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Lillie Samuels

It tells you how strong you have a relationship.

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Malaika Hollist

How much of a match.

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Lillie Samuels

Yes. So say, for instance, the latest one that I found out that I never knew about was a brother that showed up and and my DNA. And typically, when you have someone that matches you, the company lets you know that you have a match. Mm hmm. So you have an option to contact that person by email. And so I received this e-mail and saying, you know, saying that they would like to be able to talk to me about the DNA.

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Lillie Samuels

Mm hmm. And I answered and come to find out, he was very high. Higher than anyone that's on my tree. He was like, 1900 and something. Oh, wow. So I knew that he had to be a half brother, and we communicated. And he sent me his. He didn't know his father. He was actually adopted at birth. Okay. And so through that, I was able to let him know that, yes.

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Lillie Samuels

You know, you my half-sibling. And he sent in a birth certificate that he received because he was in the process of something happened with his adoption, which then they had to redo. Mm hmm. And with that, they were able to give him his original birth certificate, which showed a Clyde Graham, which is my father's name. So I told him for sure.

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Lillie Samuels

Yeah. Oh and he. He looks a lot like my father as well. So that that was a surprise. And then I received a notification from a a third cousin is how it was listed. But I knew it had to be a her father was probably my half sibling. And then I was able to solidify that. That that was for sure.

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Lillie Samuels

Mm hmm. And then a sister that I knew about, my father told me that I had a sister named Gina. And I always look for Gina, but I figured she probably got married and a different last name. But she took the test, too. And that's when I was able to find out who she was and she contacted me and we were able to confirm that she was my sister.

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Lillie Samuels

So I have had quite a few surprises.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. Are these. So when we spoke earlier, you mentioned that you were able to have kind of a family reunion. Are these some of the people you were able to meet?

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Lillie Samuels

That's a different side of the family. Now, the one that you're referring to was my mother's side of the family. And we kind of suspected that through research that we kind of knew the family where that had enslaved us.

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Malaika Hollist

Mm hmm.

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Lillie Samuels

And but through DNA, they showed up as well. And some of them were more liberal. And some of us were more liberal. But the two sides that were liberal decided to come together. And the family reunion. And so we had a blended family reunion in Alexandria, Louisiana, where the enslavement took place. We visited the lands, we visited the cemetery and just really had a great time together.

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Lillie Samuels

Yes. And so we still are in contact with each other through Facebook is how we keep in touch. 2019 is when we got together. And so we always hope that we can get together again.

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Malaika Hollist

That's awesome. That's really cool that, you know, a situation that obviously no one wanted to happen or, you know, people obviously don't want to be enslaved. You were able to kind of find a silver lining in it and create, you know, a whole new family and a group of people to have a community with.

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Lillie Samuels

And there was so much love.

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Malaika Hollist

MM.

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Lillie Samuels

At that family reunion? Yeah. One of them said we always wondered what happened to you all. Yeah. You know, so it was good. There was some. Some were very stark. Didn't want to have anything to do with it. But, you know, we still were able to have a very good time.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. And that's okay. You never know what might change in the future. You know, sometimes it takes time. So this is really exciting. So really, DNA and geneaology have really played such a huge role in your life. Do you mind telling us about one of your other projects, the cemetery project?

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Lillie Samuels

Oh, yes.

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Malaika Hollist

This is a big one you work with.

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Lillie Samuels

That is the big one. And I'll to continue that story after I found my grandmother, Lucy, and my my great grandmother Lucy and my grandmother, Lily, who I'm named after. And I found them in Beaumont, Texas. And my grandmother was married, and she had she was having children. And then in 2000 I'm sorry, in 1914, I find that she's deceased.

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Lillie Samuels

Lucy is. And so.

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Malaika Hollist

And Lucy's your great grandmother?

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Lillie Samuels

She is the cook for the doctor.

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Malaika Hollist

Right.

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Lillie Samuels

And so I started researching and decided to request the death certificate. Mm hmm. So I ordered the death certificate record, and when it came, it showed that she was buried at Evergreen Cemetery.

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Malaika Hollist

Okay.

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Lillie Samuels

And I knew because I lived in Beaumont as a child in Beaumont, Texas, and I knew everybody was at another cemetery, Blanchard Cemetery. And that's on my grandmother, on my grandmother's side. So all of the Compton's were at a different cemetery, but it was in the same city. So I say, Well, why is she in Evergreen?

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Lillie Samuels

I never heard of Evergreen Cemetery. Yeah. So I started researching and was able to find an article about Evergreen Cemetery. And it tells the story of of these three church members who had often talked about going to the area where they thought there was some homeless people there, but they decided, well, we've got to go back there and encourage them and invite them to church.

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Lillie Samuels

Well, they they finally did it. And when they were returning is when I guess they were relaxed and started looking down. And this looks like a grave. And they started seeing several graves and come to find out, it looked like an abandoned cemetery. So this was a Sunday that Monday morning, one of the ladies, Sandra Will Turner, decided, I'm calling the city.

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Lillie Samuels

She's a retired nurse. She called the city and see if we can get this cleaned up. We should give respect to these people that are buried here. So that became a journey that she never thought she was going to take.

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Malaika Hollist

Right.

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Lillie Samuels

And she's still involved with that today. She had on that article that she had created this foundation to raise money to be able to get it cleaned up and do some other improvements that she dreamed that she would like to have happen. So after talking to her and listening to her struggles, I know I knew that she was going to need something.

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Lillie Samuels

If I gave her proof it would open up some doors. So I started researching to find who was buried there, and at that time I was able to find 125 people. So I hurriedly got that together as quickly as I could within a few months. And this was copies of the death certificates and and information about them and had put it into a a booklet for her dedicated to her for the work that she was doing.

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Malaika Hollist

Mm hmm.

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Lillie Samuels

And I sent that off to her, and it did open up doors. It allowed her to join several groups that were involved with cemeteries and even designated the cemetery as a historical site.

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Malaika Hollist

Oh, so the Evergreen Cemetery is now a historical site.

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Lillie Samuels

It is a historic site.

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Malaika Hollist

Wow. That's awesome.

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Lillie Samuels

Yeah. And so she's very dedicated to it. Doesn't have anyone in her family that is buried there. Mm hmm. But she feels very strongly about it. When I would work on it at the main library here in Tampa, off of Ashley and I, one of the librarian said, Hey, let me get this published for you. At that time, they were really still looking for a lot of literature and and information about black history.

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Lillie Samuels

So she she put that together and published it for me. But since that time, I continued because I knew there was other people. I had to hurry up and get that done right. So I kept searching and I stopped this time as at 1080 people that has been found to have been buried there.

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Malaika Hollist

And there's still more.

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Lillie Samuels

There's still more because after I stopped, I said, look, let me look through some more. And I saw that there were others, but I didn't add them to because I stopped because I wanted to tell the story about those people that would probably give an idea of who was buried there. And I was able to find a few that are in the slave documentaries that they had had recorded. Some of

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Lillie Samuels

them are buried there. There is a few shootings. There's one person who was even hung. There was one where one of the riots in Beaumont took place because this in this black engineer was working at a refinery and he was accused of raping a white woman, which caused a riot where they had to call in the security to come in.

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Lillie Samuels

And also place curfew because both sides were very angry. Well, the engineer, the black engineer died. And shortly after the white lady did say that she falsely accused him.

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Malaika Hollist

Mm hmm.

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Lillie Samuels

But that's the kind of stories that happened. That's not the only one. Right. It's happened several times.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah.

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Lillie Samuels

And those things we need to know.

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Malaika Hollist

Mm hmm.

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Lillie Samuels

And on both sides to see that this is not how we should be doing. Right. We. We are here and should be. Yes. Embracing each other.

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Malaika Hollist

We're all here for a short period of time. We waste a lot of it fighting for no reason.

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Lillie Samuels

For no reason at all. Falsely accusing. Just to. For what reason?

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. To end a life.

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Lillie Samuels

And here’s the thing. It’s just like during Reconstruction.

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Malaika Hollist

Mm hmm.

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Lillie Samuels

It was frightening that black people made such progress in such a short period of time.

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Malaika Hollist

Mm hmm.

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Lillie Samuels

We were in politics. We were owners of businesses. And every industry we were there. And all of a sudden, it was like, well, how could this be? They were not allowed to read or write, how could they be making so much progress in such a short period of time? So that's why immediately they started thinking of How can we curtail this?

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Lillie Samuels

We have got to stop this. We're going to lose our power. Mm hmm. And it's always the power. Yeah, that's the driving force.

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Malaika Hollist

Yep. Yep. It is. Sadly, things were still struggling with today.

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Lillie Samuels

It's amazing.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. It's just. It's happening in different ways, but it's all the same. Power, money. You know, which is unfortunate. But I'm so excited for all the the work you were able to do there. And that that gives us an opportunity to hear more of these stories and hopefully people become more enlightened and understanding, because I think there's the you bring up something that I think about a lot, which is people don't actually think some of these things really happened.

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Malaika Hollist

But the more the stories come out the more it happens over and over and over again. I think it makes people wake up and I think we have been having that progress over the last 3 to 5 years, I'd say. But this is really great work because it's another it's another space of information that hopefully people can learn something.

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Malaika Hollist

Yeah. So let's talk about your work now. You are the new president, which congratulations, of the Afro-American Historical and Genealogical Society here in Tampa. Can you tell us a little bit about what that work means? Okay.

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Lillie Samuels

Well, I have a friend. A couple friends. It's Andrea and Bob Wimberly. And they introduced me to Afro-American Historical and Genealogical Society. I had been researching for some time, but I never belonged to an organization and they had belonged to an organization in in Philadelphia before they moved here. And they found a chapter here. Mm hmm. And so when I met them shortly after, they invited me to be a member of that organization.

00;24;30;18 - 00;25;08;16

Lillie Samuels

And and since that time, I've been active with them. I've held the program director. And then I held vice president and program director together as one position. And then in June of this year, the group voted me in as the president. So the term started actually in September. But it is an organization where like minded people come together.

00;25;09;06 - 00;25;45;10

Lillie Samuels

We discuss roadblocks we may be having. We invite speakers to come in and and speak to us about things of interest, history as well as genealogy. We talk about new improvements to the tools that are out there and how to use them. We have taken trips together, historical trips together, and we we do workshops outside for someone who may want a presenter of something of that kind.

00;25;45;26 - 00;25;53;02

Lillie Samuels

But it's it is a wonderful organization. It's a national organization. So there's several chapters around the nation.

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Malaika Hollist

And do you guys, as a chapter I'm just curious, do you do you find certain projects kind of like the Evergreen Cemetery? Do you find different projects that you work on specifically?

00;26;05;08 - 00;26;09;11

Lillie Samuels

Not as a group, but some of us are involved in them.

00;26;09;14 - 00;26;09;27

Malaika Hollist

Okay.

00;26;09;28 - 00;26;25;07

Lillie Samuels

Like the Zion, we have a couple of people that's involved with that project. Okay. With my involvement with the with the cemetery 'm involved that I don't have the time to.

00;26;25;13 - 00;26;25;19

Malaika Hollist

00;26;25;19 - 00;26;34;28

Lillie Samuels

to add, but definitely have my support and encouragement. And so very proud of what they're doing here.

00;26;35;05 - 00;26;49;00

Malaika Hollist

Can you explain to us a little bit about some of the tools that you use and even some of the ones that are accessible to everyone in case they want to get involved or interested in finding out a little bit more about their family history?

00;26;49;01 - 00;27;26;19

Lillie Samuels

Of course. Yeah. When I first speak to someone about genealogy, I take them to family search dot org. Okay. And because it's a free site, it's a little bit more involved with research. But some things you can put in the name and it will bring it up. There's also tools where you can look through something like a microfiche, and all the images that you can flip through to see what you are looking for.

00;27;26;21 - 00;27;55;10

Lillie Samuels

Mm hmm. It takes more time, but that's the free one. Which is what I start out. Because the other sites you do pay, right? Everyone knows of ancestry. There's a lot of commercials about them and the DNA. They do it all. And with the ancestry and with your family tree on ancestry combined with your DNA, it's a great tool to bring those two together that they will show you

00;27;55;10 - 00;28;23;08

Lillie Samuels

you’re matched with this person, and this is their tree. And you can look to see if you recognize anyone and where where the and the common ancestor meets together. And 23 and Me another that you can use. There's several out there. For research and there's myheritage. And there's several out there.

00;28;23;22 - 00;28;35;24

Malaika Hollist

So what would be some great advice you'd give to someone who's just starting out in research and, you know, maybe they're overwhelmed or they're not finding as much information as they thought. Mm hmm. Some advice you would give them.

00;28;35;25 - 00;29;03;18

Lillie Samuels

That's a great question. Yeah, because what you want to start with is, what do I know right now? There are some family research sheets that you can put down that has you put down your name, your date of birth, if, you know, if that person is deceased, the date that they passed away, who was in their immediate family, was that person married?

00;29;04;03 - 00;29;42;11

Lillie Samuels

Did they have children and information about those children? If there was aunts and uncles, you would add their information on a sheet of their own and then at least you have it down where those clues will be able to take you further. You use that information and you develop your family tree. And if you are on ancestry, once you put that information in, then their search engines are also trying to find and you would get like the hints that the leads that they refer to.

00;29;42;22 - 00;29;42;26

Lillie Samuels

Mm hmm.

00;29;43;09 - 00;29;54;12

Malaika Hollist

Good luck, to anyone who is listening. Good luck to you. So it's a journey. So why do you think it's so important for black people to know about their ancestry?

00;29;55;15 - 00;30;32;26

Lillie Samuels

Well, because I think it builds strength. Mm hmm. It bring it brings about that inner strength that has been that's been taken away from us for many generations, even though some of us are doing much better in life and able to pull ourselves up and make progress. That negative energy is still lingering. And I can remember my first DNA tests with African ancestry.

00;30;33;12 - 00;31;04;06

Lillie Samuels

And it is a DNA company that went to Africa and got samples throughout the whole African continent and bring it in their database. And when I had that was the first DNA that I had done. When it came back, I found out that my maternal, my maternal line, came from Cameroon.

00;31;04;12 - 00;31;42;04

Lillie Samuels

And I'm telling you, when I got that, I can't. I can't give you the words to let you know how I felt when I found out that I know where my family is living. Some of my family is living right now. My ancestors are at that's where they're living . And maybe they moved or whatever. But that's where they're living right now because for many years and a whole lifetime, I heard people say, Oh, I'm going to Italy, visit my family, I'm going to go to Germany and visit my family.

00;31;42;16 - 00;31;50;26

Lillie Samuels

I'm going to go to all these visits, Japan or, you know, Korea. They know where their family is.

00;31;50;26 - 00;31;51;08

Malaika Hollist

Yeah.

00;31;51;24 - 00;32;15;14

Lillie Samuels

As enslaved people, we don't know where they came from. Documents were destroyed when they came over after after emancipation documents. It's it's why it's so hard for us to trace back past 1870, because that's the first census we show up.

00;32;15;23 - 00;32;16;05

Malaika Hollist

Mm hmm.

00;32;16;28 - 00;32;36;11

Lillie Samuels

So and so it was just a feeling I can't explain. It gave me so much strength and determination that nothing's going to stop me. Every step you gain the strength. Nothing's going to stop me. And you just keep going.

00;32;37;08 - 00;33;00;21

Malaika Hollist

Knowing yourself is such an important part to your story and figuring out who you are. It doesn't define who you are, but it can help you decide the kind of person you want to be in. For so many people, that is a privilege that they just don't have. So it's a very important thing for I think everyone should have the opportunity to know about their ancestry for sure.

00;33;00;24 - 00;33;19;22

Malaika Hollist

And I hope that they hopefully by listening to this, it'll help them find a way that they can start if they don't know already. Definitely, yes. So I would love for you to just let everybody know how they can get involved. You know, if they want to get involved with your campus chapter, where can they find you?

00;33;20;05 - 00;33;51;11

Lillie Samuels

Yes, we have a Facebook group page and it's AAHGS and that stands for Afro-American Historical and Genealogical Society. AHHGS Tampa, Florida chapter. It's a private group, but you can ask to join and we will accept you because we feel like if you want to be a part of us, there's a reason you want to get involved.

00;33;51;23 - 00;34;18;02

Lillie Samuels

We do meet virtually every second Saturday of the month. We can add you to that list so that you can take part in our meetings and involved with whatever we do. We do have a membership. It's combined with the National dues as well as the chapter dues. It's $50 a year to be a part of the org's chapter here in Tampa and includes National.

00;34;18;12 - 00;34;18;21

Malaika Hollist

wow.

00;34;19;09 - 00;34;58;05

Lillie Samuels

Okay. And then they can also contact me directly. My email address is lddonzell@msn.com. If you have any questions or want to get involved, you can certainly contact me that way as well. And I thank you for this opportunity to be able to share this important story. It's something we really need to learn more about and get more involved with as we continue our journey throughout this this time on earth.

00;34;58;06 - 00;35;03;01

Malaika Hollist

Yeah, I agree. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate.

00;35;03;01 - 00;35;03;08

Lillie Samuels

thank you

00;35;04;01 - 00;35;28;21

Malaika Hollist

And I hope you guys enjoyed the episode and we'll see you in the next one. Thank you for listening to the Arts Axis Florida Podcast series When Freedom Rings. You can listen to all episodes wherever you stream podcast or watch our episodes on our YouTube channel. Just Search Arts Axis Florida. We can't forget to thank our sponsors, Community Foundation, Tampa Bay and Gobioff foundation.

00;35;29;09 - 00;35;45;13

Malaika Hollist

This series was created by Malaika Hollist and not possible without the help of Adrianna Rodriguez and more. This is a product of WUSF Public Media. Copyright 2022 WUSF Public Media.

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